Divinity of Christ

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 1:33am

#1

pob tsuas

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Last seen: 26 weeks 3 days ago

Joined: 03/23/2010

Re: Divinity of Christ

Na, I'm glad you wrote this one. I totally agree with your thoughts. Jesus is fully God and fully man. Theanthropos -the God-man. I would like to add a couple of thoughts.

In English translations of the Bible when the word LORD (all caps) is used it indicates the Hebrew name of God. Yahweh.

This name is used of Jesus in quite a few places. Here's a couple of examples.

Isaiah 40:3 compare to Matt.3:3. John the Baptist came to proclaim the coming of the LORD (Yahweh) who was Jesus.

Psalm 102:1,24-27 compare to Heb. 1:10. Psalm 102 is addressed to the LORD (Yahweh) and that Psalm is quoted in Heb.1:10 in reference to Jesus.(see Heb.1:8)

Isaiah 6:1-10 compare to John 12:37-41. When Isaiah saw the glory of the LORD, John says he saw the glory of Jesus.

Micah 5:2 The ruler of Israel will be eternal, an attribute of God alone. This prophecy is partially quoted in Matt. 2:6 and is applied to Jesus.

Finally, Isaiah 48:16 Whoever is speaking here was sent by the Lord God and His Spirit, and makes the claim that from the time that "it" took place he was there. In other words, he is claiming eternity, an attribute of God alone.

There is so much more to say, but this is a start.

Wed, 04/14/2010 - 2:02pm

#2

Anonymous (not verified)

Re: Divinity of Christ

Let's see things clearly with full consideration of Scripture, in particular the Ten Commendments which are the canon laws.

Jesus by himself is not God. Whenever you believe Jesus is God, you break the Ten Commendments at its commend #1, the very foundamental one.

Christlian Faith conceives God as the Trinity: The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit; the equilaterall triangle being the perfect analogy to set as explainatory example. The Three are equal, and none can independently be the whole; the harmonious formation of the three [equal angles and sides] together becomes one indivisible and undevided. This notion came from Jesus himself.

I hereby humbly caution anyone of us to trying to define and or make God; because God defines and makes us, and not the other way around. What is written is written, I don't dig
1. to find out how much truth is in it or
2. to prove the accuracy and authenticity, factual occuring and or tengibility of its content
I am simply contented, happy, fit and willing to consider myself as a creation of God Almighty. I am blessed and special. I am fit and willing to fulfill God's assignment on earth and in this life to live my life to the fullest, the very best I can, with integrity, rightiousness and significance. Do each and everything with God for me myself, any and everyone I live with and for, and for God. Life should be without guilt unless we have committed a wrongdoing, and without arrogance. Humility is the foundation of greatness.

As God is in command, as he has been eversince infinity and will ever be for eternity, I trust and believe; I see and appreciate the beauty and value God has made in everything... a wild flower kissed by the dew, a dust flying in the air, the caress of a breeze, the sound of silence, the speed of imagination, a mosquito's bite...so forth and so on...the symphony of life.

If I consider myself a child of God the Almighty, I have to think, act, behave and live honorably, ethically, and compassionately as such. Otherwise I'll fail my duties and discount my status. God's blessing is out there ready to come upon whomever ready and prepared to receive it.

Be it known that God did not make mistake, and we aught to love and appreciate and respect fully his will. God has made us different, and everything is beautiful in its own way; that's the wonder of God's creation. No one has neither the authority or the power to judge; leave that role to God.

Thu, 04/15/2010 - 2:01am

#3

pob tsuas

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Last seen: 26 weeks 3 days ago

Joined: 03/23/2010

Re: Divinity of Christ

Nobody said Jesus "by Himself" is God. There is one being-God, who exists in three distinct hypostases, The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, each one is co-essential, co-equal, and co-eternal. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. All three are called Yahweh (God's proper name) in the Bible. There is one "what" -God, and three "who's" - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. When we say God we are referring to all three. When we want to refer to one of the distinctions in the God-head we say Father, Son,or Holy Spirit.

We were focusing on the Son. In His incarnation the eternal Son of God took on human flesh. This is known as the hypostatic union. Jesus Christ was the union of God the Son with Jesus of Nazareth(a man with a beginning in time) Jesus means "Yahweh saves." Christ means "anointed one." Jesus Christ was fully God and fully man. "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross." Phillipians 2:5-8

Jesus of Nazareth - a man with a beginning in time
Son of God - eternal, second member of the Trinity
Jesus Christ - the union of the Son of God with Jesus of Nazareth, born of the virgin Mary.

I agree with you in regards to your high view of humility. One of the best ways to show humility is to submit to the Word of God. Jesus, (not me) said " Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." John 8:24 This is one more of the many reasons that I believe that Jesus is God.

If we don't heed the words of Scripture when God tells us about Himself, we indeed run the very risk of worshipping a God of our own making. A God that "feels" right.

I care very much about the truthfullness, accuracy, and authenticity of the Scriptures. I have entrusted my life to them. If I have open-heart surgery I want to know that the surgeon is actually a trained surgeon, not a mere imposter. I have trusted him with my life. If I cross the ocean in a ship I want to know that the ship has no leaks. I have entrusted my life to it. It matters very much what a person trusts in or believes. More importantly, who they believe. I believe the God who is revealed in the Bible.

Fri, 05/07/2010 - 4:21pm

#4

Anonymous (not verified)

Re: Divinity of Christ

pob tsuas wrote:

I care very much about the truthfullness, accuracy, and authenticity of the Scriptures. I have entrusted my life to them. If I have open-heart surgery I want to know that the surgeon is actually a trained surgeon, not a mere imposter. I have trusted him with my life. If I cross the ocean in a ship I want to know that the ship has no leaks. I have entrusted my life to it. It matters very much what a person trusts in or believes. More importantly, who they believe. I believe the God who is revealed in the Bible.

With all due respects, please allow me to question if you believe litterally any and all that contained in the Bible? For instance and amoung many others, 1) the creation in 6 days?
2) Adam & Eve...created just like that as modern humans - and young adults? 3) Did Cain marry one of his sister? etc...
4) Exodus: did the plagues occur one after another within days as put in the Bible? - were the Israelites slaves in Egypt or were they free subjects with a specific [eventually mercenary] mission to defend the country against outsiders invasion? - so forth and so on. What are truthfullness, accuracy and authenticity in those? Any historical facts and or documentation to support and validate? 5) God spoke often as stated in Bilble...did God speak in human languages and articulated with a audible voice and sound? - Why God no more speaks nowadays?

There's a big difference between believing in God and believing textually each and everything as stated in the Bible. The scriptures have been written by humans over the years in their times and languages in consideration of circumstances, era, culture and customs... What seems really matter to me is have faith in God who is in charge and in control; I am a child of the Almighty, and I have my duties to live fully in honor of my creator with dignity and respect of all his wonderful creation, with rightiousness and lovingkindness at all times.

Sat, 05/08/2010 - 2:16am

#5

pob tsuas

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Joined: 03/23/2010

Re: Divinity of Christ

Yes, I do indeed interpret the Bible literally and do believe that the original manuscripts were inerrant, infallible, and God-breathed. 2 Tim. 3:16,17 When I say that I interpret it literally, I do understand that the Bible uses metaphors, similes, litotes, and many other standard figures of speech. The Bible is to be interpreted in the sense in which it was intended. When God uses personification we are to read it in that light. When He uses anthropomorphisms they are to be recognized as such and not taken in a wooden literal sense. etc.etc.

I appreciate your questions. They are fair questions and they do not offend me in the least. I will do my best to answer them briefly. Some of them would require fairly in depth answers but I will try to keep this response to a reasonable length.

1. The 6 day creation? - I do believe that the earth and it's inhabitants were created in 6 literal days. There is a fair amount of debate about this even among conservative Bible scholars. I see no reason to not believe the creation account as it's written. If the first chapter of the Bible is errant then I wouldn't put much confidence in the rest of the book.

2. Adam and Eve created just like that as young adults? - Yes. I believe the Genesis account. I believe them to be made by Divine fiat, ex nihilo.

3. Did Cain marry one of his sisters? - Perhaps. It's not possible to say with any certainty. It just tells us that Cain settled in Nod and had relations with his wife. It doesn't tell us how long it took him to get to Nod, nor does it tell us how long he was there before he knew his wife. It could have been a sister, niece, great niece etc. People lived far longer in those days so it's quite possible that it was a more distant relative than simply being his sister. But, to answer what I think you are getting at, yes, at some time one of Adam's sons had to procreate with one of his daughters. It did not have the Divine prohibition which came later. Can you think of another way for the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve to procreate?

4. Exodus questions ; A. plagues?- Yes, I believe they occured as written.
B. Were the Israelites slaves in Egypt? - Yes, I believe the Exodus account.
C. Can I validate historically the plagues and Israelite's slavery? - Yes, it's in the Bible. The Bible is the most historically accurate book ever written. As far as validating these two questions with other historical sources - No, I can't at this point. To be very honest with you I have never questioned this so haven't done any study on this issue. It would not surprise me if I couldn't find any validation in Egyptian history because they would have good reason to not record this incident. Absence of extra-biblical evidence does not automatically invalidate the biblical account. As an example- until recently you would never have read about the Hmong involvement in the Viet Nam war in any United States history book. That doesn't mean it didn't happen.

5. God speaking in the Bible A. Did God speak in an audible voice, with human languages?- Yes. Once again I believe the biblical account. God as creator of all things can certainly communicate with His creation in a way that they can understand. There are many examples of this. For space considerations I will just refer you to one. Matthew 3:16,17 Clearly this was an audible voice and was understood by those present.
B. Why does God no longer speak (audibly?) these days? - I'm not sure that I can really answer this one. I would have to do more study as to "why" He no longer speaks audibly. " The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law." Deuteronomy 29:29
This may be a case of reasons known only to God. He does as He pleases. Hebrews speaks to this issue a little bit. " God, after He spoke long ago to the Fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world." Hebrews 1:1,2
I believe Jesus to be God and He most definitely spoke in an audible voice.

It's not clear to me where you stand as far as your view of the Bible. Do you believe all of it? Some of it? (if so, which parts, and how do you decide) Where, if not from the Bible, do you get your information about God? How do you know it's true? How do you validate your conclusions about God?

Yes, the Bible was written by men over a period of hundreds of years, in many different cultures, three languages, and many different circumstances. But, it was superintended by God's Holy Spirit. "But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." 2 Peter 1:20,21

Mon, 05/10/2010 - 11:49am

#6

Anonymous (not verified)

Re: Divinity of Christ

Be it known that any and every action get equal and opposite force; radicalism [in any and all forms] should be avoided. For virtues can lose their value to becoming wickedness, for instance
1. when Truth kills, what's the goodness in it?
2. when Trust is blind, it may be dangerous
3. when Love become possessive, it brings along ugliness and loses its charm, beauty, splendor.

I won't ever know God; God knows me. I humbly and fully enjoy each evrything God has made. Life is wonderful. The beauty and magnificence dwell in the simplicity of everything and nothing. God has created us different for a purpose; I bow with full respect to God's will. I cannot just light a candle and look for God everywhere... God reveals himself everywhere and anywhere, through anything and nothing. All that I know is that I am created [by God] with a purpose and a specific mission; I'll fulfill this life which has been loaned to me with significance to the full extent of my responsibility and ability, the very best I possibly can. Whenever I'll have to render my soul to God, I'll have to report to God as how I've used this life of mine (a laon is to be paid back in full [principal + interests]).

Tue, 05/11/2010 - 3:15am

#7

Anonymous #2 (not verified)

Re: Divinity of Christ

We've all become too familiar with a God we hardly know...

Theology = revelation of God by God ONLY, not by studying and trying to grasp with the intellectual mind. Lean not on your own understanding but The LORD's.

It's just all about having interactive and intimate relationship with God. God reveals you truth when you seek Him with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength.

It's not all about theology or about doctrines. God is not gonna say "Do you believe in this doctrine or this theology? If so then you get to go to heaven." No. He is just gonna ask you, "Did you feed my sheep? Did you follow my commands?" He said that those who love him will follow his commandments.

Debates upon which theology is correct is merely talk without power. For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of talk, but of power. If all you do is talk about Him and not talk TO Him, He's just gonna say, "Away from me. I never knew you, you who practice lawlessness."

Yes, God does what He so pleases, but He truly does care about what you want to. He does all things for the good of those who love Him. Isn't that why He said in John 14:14, "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." God no longer calls you servants or slaves, but He calls you friends. He's calling you into a higher relationship with Him.

It's not all about theology or doctrines, and yes they give a good standard. If you were to talk about theology, remember this, Jesus Christ is PERFECT THEOLOGY. Everything that Christ did, he modeled for us to follow and showed man what authority man has already been given by God. Mostly, Jesus Christ showed us a relationship with the Father. Father-Son relationship.

It's all about relationship with God. And the second is like it, relationship with your neighbor.

Tue, 05/11/2010 - 4:29am

#8

pob tsuas

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Last seen: 26 weeks 3 days ago

Joined: 03/23/2010

Re: Divinity of Christ

Good questions and comments. I will do my best to respond in a brief manner.

1. When Truth kills, what's the goodness in it? - Evil is restrained. " Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed quickly, therefore the hearts of the sons of men among them are given fully to do evil." Ecclesiastes 8:11

I would ask you this question - When EVIL kills what's the goodness in it? Should evil be allowed to run rampant?

2. When trust is blind it may be dangerous. - We agree. This is why I have put my trust in Jesus Christ as revealed in the Bible. His life, death, and resurrection are historical facts undisputed by any rational or reputable historian. Furthermore, His resurrection is God's proof to the world of His coming judgement. "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead." Acts 17:30,31

3. When love becomes possessive, it brings along ugliness and loses it's charm, beauty, splendor. - I don't know if you are married or not, but if you are I doubt that you really believe this. Would it not bother you if someone showed improper affection towards your spouse? I think it would be far uglier to approve of such affection. How about if your spouse were to show their affection to someone else? Would you be ok with that? ".......God is love." 1 John 4:8 "for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God." Exodus 34:14

Do you really want to say that God's love is ugly? Please think about that.

I won't ever know God; God knows me. - I'll start with the second part first. I agree fully with you. God knows you. He is omniscient. He knows your every thought.

The first part bothers me. "I won't ever know God." That saddens me. I think that's a foolish choice on your part. God can certainly be known. " It is written in the prophets, " And they shall all be taught of God." Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me." John 6:45
"I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know me." John 10:14

I bow with full respect to God's will - Really? It doesn't sound to me like you believe in Jesus Christ. If I'm wrong about that I sincerely apologize. " So Jesus answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me. If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself. He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who is seeking the glory of the One who sent Him, He is true, and there is no unrighteousness in Him." John 7:16-18 If you bowed to the will of God you would believe Jesus Christ.

In the end you will have to give an account to God for how you lived your life. " The conclusion when all has been heard is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. For God will bring every act to judgement, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil." Ecclesiastes 12:13,14

For your sake I hope you have never sinned because "the wages of sin is death...." Romans 6:23 But....... "the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23

I want to assure you that all I have said here is altogether free of malice or animosity towards you. It is quite the opposite. As an ambassador for Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17-21) I can only speak the truth in love for your good and to God's glory. I beg you, please my friend, check out the truth claims of Jesus Christ in the Bible. "...... for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12

"And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the LORD will be delivered." Joel 2:32

Please, look to Jesus and live. " Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgement, but has passed out of death into life." John 5:24

Jesus is God!

Tue, 05/11/2010 - 10:58am

#9

Anonymous (not verified)

Re: Divinity of Christ

Wow, quel charabia!
Pretentiousness and vanity are vices that dangerously implicate intolerance and compromise harmony.

Wow, when anyone considers self "Ambassador for Jesus", "an envoy for God", think and think again...do we fulfill that mission with utmost excellence and to the fullest extent? -Beware that any misrepretention would bring us to an imposter of selfmade importance.

Indeed and candidly, I don't know and I won't ever know God. But I am with certainty that God knows me. Whoever claims to KNOW God would sin by assumption, vanity, pretentiousness, ignorance.

In term of LOVE, be it known that the true love is ablative (without any string attached and or expectation of return whatsoever) - Jealousy, possessiveness are vices, egotistic and thus without full consideration and total respect to the one we love. To love someone, is to do good, care for, support, protect, defend, promote his/her happiness and wellbeing without expecting any return.

Beware of false prophets; many will claim to come in the name of Jesus and or as envoy of God.

The importance is living with rightiousness, loving kindness, respect and dignity, not just talking.

Ceev faj! Leej neeg twg muag cus pliav siab dig ntuv yuav yuam kev... tsawm yuav ntse ib txhi, los yuav ruam peb tag kis mog. Neeg txawj tsis khav, neeg ntse tsis thuam.
Puab nrog koj txhais tes
Txhim nrog koj lub siab
Tsim kev zoo rau koj tus kheej
thiab rau ib tsoom zeej

Thu, 05/13/2010 - 5:18pm

#10

Xab (not verified)

Re: Divinity of Christ

I applaud your Chilvary... You seem to know God but yet you don't believe in his words written in the Bible. How do you know my God is also your God? I read the Bible and believe what it says and teaches. If you don't believe what the Bible says and teaches then you must be getting your information from another source other than the Bible. If however you do read from the same Bible, then you must believe, agree, and follow what the Bible teaches. How can you believe in some and not all?

Fri, 05/14/2010 - 11:00am

#11

Anonymous (not verified)

Re: Divinity of Christ

First and foremost, God is God, not yours not mine; God is God, the Almighty, the Ultimate Ruler of time and Space ever since infinity and through eternity. It's inappropriate to using the possessive mode to saying 'my' God or 'your' God. There is ONE and only one GOD. Anything, everything an all things belong to God and God only.

Be it known that God created us and every single thing for a reason and purpose. God created us different [neither by accident nor by mistake, but intentionally and with his blessing]. Along with life, God gave us Liberty and Responsibility; by the same, God placed on each and every one of us the accountability to report to Him on and about the mission He has assigned respectively. In term of judgment, leave it to God. Responsibility is the foundation of Liberty as Humility is for Greatness.

Open your eyes, open your heart, open your soul, and see, feel and enjoy the magnificence God has made. A true believer lives a life of greatness with compassion, integrity, and values at all times. A true believer is humble and never judgmental.

Human tends to be egotistic and thus possessive; beware of negative factors that may influence us to a misconception and lead us to erronous belief. Radicalism always has been and will always be with prejudicial intolerance.

To fulfill God's will is to live each and every wake of life with significance with God and for God, treat people and things with utmost respect and dignity at all times to the fullest extent of our responsibility and ability. A believer loves God and is infinitely rich with loving-kindness and care.

Dominus te cum!

Mon, 05/17/2010 - 4:13pm

#12

Xab (not verified)

Re: Divinity of Christ

I understand what you are trying to say, God is God, but you haven't really answered my question. I'm just trying to understand, for my own curiosity, if we both read from the same scripture, why is it that you only believe some and not all. I mean, how do you determine one book or story is true and the other is not? I'm just curious, not trying to put you on the spot attack your belief or anything.

This is what I believe: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Tue, 05/18/2010 - 10:50am

#13

Anonymous (not verified)

Re: Divinity of Christ

Xab;

I'm not trying to say it; I do indeed say it with full awareness and to the best of my belief and rationality.

In life as in battle, valor is paramount. Often times, we see differently the very same thing, all depend on how we look at it. Knowledge [including erudite cognitive, emotional, social and adversity intelligences] and the sense of greatness usually bring along compassion and loving kindness. I humbly convey you to consider cultivating awareness and knowledge without passion and without prejudice; look with your eyes and see with your soul, listen with your ears and hear with your heart.

Whereas night and day are joined and separated by a twilight zone;
Life is neither all black nor all white,
Right is not always right and left not necessary wrong,
Men are not in any way stronger than women,
Folks of paler skin are not methodically sharper than their darker counterparts,
A race is never superior to another,
It’s not true that only Christians deserve heaven, and other faiths will doom to hell;
All things, absolutely every thing, belong to God, and never the other way around.
We all are accountable to life which has been loaned to us by the Ultimate Force, the Supreme Being, and we ought to
discriminate without the least hesitation,
separate with a clear-cut boundary and in full force:

Segregate Righteousness from maliciousness,
Discriminate kindness and ruthlessness,
Preserve good, and eliminate evil,
Favor truth, and tell apart offense,
Value integrity, and disdain faithlessness,
Embrace honesty, and denounce lie,
Pick out virtue, and cut off debauchery,
Engage responsibility, and dismiss luck,
Validate quality, and reprimand apathy,
Commend excellence, and condemn mediocrity,
Adopt respect, and reject despise,
Nurture compassion, and divest prejudice,
Foster humility, and deny vanity,
Adhere to significance, and cast doubt on brilliance,
Treasure love, and refuse hatred,
Cherish peace, and eradicate aggression,
Choose freedom, and rebuff repression,
Honor life, and challenge death,
Engineer happiness, and repel misery.
Xab,
Be an envoy of time and space
With the ultimate mission to compel goodness,
Do it beforehand, pay it forward.
Be a man of greatness.

With best of regards,

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 2:22pm

#14

kaycee

Offline

Last seen: 3 weeks 6 days ago

Joined: 01/09/2012

Re: Divinity of Christ

Nice arguments, but if it is not written in the bible than your argument is all full of vanities. While everyone is here debating none of us are helping the widows, orphan, and homeless. To Anonymous, lighten up a little. God didn't create us perfect human beings. I think it is time for some self-evaluation. Didn't the apostal Paul warned the believers in Galatia to not listen to every thing preached to them about Christ except for the one he had preached to them. Excuse my grammar, I'm an unlearned person but I do have faith in Jesus Christ.

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